Curse

Pugs Not Drugs · Nov 24, 2009, 08:24 PM // 20:24

I originally ran Sabway, but kept modding and modding it, and soon I found myself running this. I've done a few vanquishes and missions with it, and it works pretty well. I realize it probably would be better if I ran SY spam or something, but I find it boring, and prefer to play my ranger over a sin or a warrior.

A quick rundown of the builds:

Me
I just provide the big damage. With all your buffs, you hit around 120 damage x2 with Death Blossom on even high armored targets. Of course, its not possible to spam Asura Scan on every target, but with the damage from "I am the strongest!" and Strength and Honor, I still hit pretty hard even auto attacking. I also act as a tank of sorts due to Lightning Reflexes and my high elemental armor. I use Lightning Reflexes in my build because it helps me spam Death Blossom and keeps my energy up.

Smiter
This build worked much better than I thought it would. The hero uses Defender's Zeal excellently, and rarely has energy issues. I generally have 2-3 melee in my group that it maintains SoH on, but I think it could do more. The AI pretty much spams Reversal of Damage when the party is taking damage. Reversal of Damage heals for about 70, protects for about 70, and does around 70 damage. I also found out Judge's Intervention had huge synergy with minions. The AI will use the skill on minions, so coupling that with Death Nova will do about 300 armor ignoring AOE damage with poison.

Minion Master
Just a general MM build. I keep Protective Spirit disabled and micro it because the AI gets spam happy with it.

Spirit Spammer
A basic spirit spamming build. Provides huge damage with spirits + Painful Bond + Splinter Weapon.

Feedback please!

Ninja Ninja · Nov 24, 2009, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Looks good to me, spirit spammer and mm works well in pve not sure how the smiter works.

ajc2123 · Nov 24, 2009, 09:16 PM // 21:16

I like it.

Defenders zeal is SO awesome in PvE....good thing its worthless in PvP. Monks with endless energy = trouble lol.

The Drunkard · Nov 24, 2009, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Even as a minion bomber I'm still not pleased with the state jagged is in. I'd switch to AoTH and if you really wanted bone minions for shambling. Otherwise it looks interesting- time to go test on my ranger.

LunchboxOctober · Nov 24, 2009, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Looks solid, esp the smiter, except RoD doesn't heal, just gives DF bonus.

Pugs Not Drugs · Nov 24, 2009, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by LunchboxOctober

Looks solid, esp the smiter, except RoD doesn't heal, just gives DF bonus.

The ~70 heal comes from Divine Favor + Smiters Boon. (It actually heals for 84 at 13 Divine Favor)

Eragon Zarroc · Nov 24, 2009, 10:17 PM // 22:17

soooo, u just rely on henchmen for heals?

and it doesn't seem very viable for say 4-man areas

Braxton619 · Nov 24, 2009, 10:20 PM // 22:20

The only problem is if they block your attacks. It would be better to have Golden Fox Strike and Wild Strike to cancel their blocking stances. I would rather put RoJ on the smiter for big spiking damage. Put Judge's Insight on your smiter. This is important in hard mode.

How are you receiving health? If your party gets spiked and everyone gets down to ~50-100hp... your screwed. I would not rely on the smiter to heal the entire team. What if Smiter's Boon gets stripped? Then he will only heal 30-40hp which is NOT enough for hard mode. Since your not taking SY, it is vital for good healing. Basically with those heroes, your going to have to take more monks in the vanquish.

Good luck on the build. If I had to rate it, it would be 7/10.

Pugs Not Drugs · Nov 24, 2009, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc

soooo, u just rely on henchmen for heals?

and it doesn't seem very viable for say 4-man areas

I have only used it in 8 man areas. I'm pretty sure its terrible in parties of 4 or 6. And yeah, henchman have gotten much better with healing since the update. The prots, minions, party heals, hex/condition removal, and body blocking from my heroes takes most the pressure off, all the henchman have to do is redbar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leet Tankur

The only problem is if they block your attacks. It would be better to have Golden Fox Strike and Wild Strike to cancel their blocking stances. I would rather put RoJ on the smiter for big spiking damage. Put Judge's Insight on your smiter. This is important in hard mode.

How are you receiving health? If your party gets spiked and everyone gets down to ~50-100hp... your screwed. I would not rely on the smiter to heal the entire team. What if Smiter's Boon gets stripped? Then he will only heal 30-40hp which is NOT enough for hard mode. Since your not taking SY, it is vital for good healing. Basically with those heroes, your going to have to take more monks in the vanquish.

Good luck on the build. If I had to rate it, it would be 7/10.

If I know I'm going to be in an area with lots of blocks like Kourna or the Realm of Torment, I would bring Golden and Wild. RoJ is pretty bad now that the AI recognizes it as AOE. RoJ does about 300 damage over 8 seconds while Judge's + Death Nova do 300 damage instantly. Plus, the AI uses RoJ on the wrong targets anyways. And if the monk had RoJ, he could not maintain SoH on more than 1 or 2 targets.

I am bringing the Monk henchman ofc to get my heals.

AtomicMew · Nov 24, 2009, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Some comments/suggestions:
R/A bar: Moebius is a sub-par elite nowadays, considering that you actually get slightly more single target DPS without using it and just going through your chain. On my sin, personally, I use shattering assault build with an unblockable chain right along side DB. IATS! is also pretty sub-par, especially on a fast attacking sin. BUH! will do more damage over time.

Channeling support:
I prefer a channeling/resto hybrid. I'm not a fan of Dwayna's sorrow. MBAS not only heals extremely well but frees up the FF/infuse combo on your MM altogether, saving you bar space.

DZ smite:
I haven't had much success with DZ smite, heroes don't seem to use DZ properly, at least for me. (I use an ER prot/smite) But it definitely looks like a good bar.

If you're looking for something to fill the optional slot with, don't be afraid to put in another copy of splinter weapon. Dual SW is insanely powerful.

Sankt Hallvard · Nov 24, 2009, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pugs Not Drugs

I realize it probably would be better if I ran SY spam or something, but I find it boring, and prefer to play my ranger over a sin or a warrior.[/B]

lol
I can't let you get away with this. You prefer to play a ranger over a sin? Check your bar again and tell me whether you play a ranger or a sin.

If you admit running SY is strong, why don't you put it on your ranger. Sins are for retarded people without honor and no desire to improve their gameplay.

Braxton619 · Nov 24, 2009, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

Sins are for retarded people without honor and no desire to improve their gameplay.

You sir are the idiot of this thread. I am a sin and proud of it. However, I know most sins are just cocky little kids that think there all rich and BS. I am not like that. I like sins for there amount of extreme damage and melee is my favorite type of gameplay. Next time I suggest picking better words than pissing off someone.

I think all professions are good in ways. If you think a profession is bad, its either you suck playing as it or you never played it.

Xx Da Best Xx · Nov 24, 2009, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pugs Not Drugs

You spelled 'damage' in your build wrong.

Other than that...needs more heals.

AtomicMew · Nov 25, 2009, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

lol
I can't let you get away with this. You prefer to play a ranger over a sin? Check your bar again and tell me whether you play a ranger or a sin.

-OR- maybe he meant he likes playing on his ranger character because he already has half his titles done, or maybe, god forbid, he just likes how his ranger looks. What difference or business is it to you?

Quote:

If you admit running SY is strong, why don't you put it on your ranger. Sins are for retarded people without honor and no desire to improve their gameplay.

Contradictory statements. If running SY! spam is stronger than running dagger spam, wouldn't running a weaker build be more challening and thus help "improve his gameplay?"

Also, sins are for "retarded people without honor?" Okay? Really now, sankt. Probably your worst post ever. I am disappointed.

Sankt Hallvard · Nov 25, 2009, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

-OR- maybe he meant he likes playing on his ranger character because he already has half his titles done, or maybe, god forbid, he just likes how his ranger looks. What difference or business is it to you?

Not my business, but he asked for feedback and I was happy to oblige. If you ask for criticism you can't complain when it arrives. He states that he prefer to play ranger over a sin but still fills most of his bar with sin skills. Do I really need to argue this point further?

Quote:

Contradictory statements. If running SY! spam is stronger than running dagger spam, wouldn't running a weaker build be more challening and thus help "improve his gameplay?"

You have to separate the 2. There is no direct link between the power of a bar and the possibilites to improve your gameplay. I'm merely pointing out that if he's aiming for efficiency, and assuming SY is a stronger choice as he says himself, well then SY simply is the better choice.

I make no judgement on whether "dagger spam" is strong or not. What I'm saying is that dagger spam is lame, cheesy, dishonorable, boring and doesn't offer you a way to progress your level of playmanship. This is my personal opinion, I know 99% disagree with me. That means the odds are good that I'm wrong and you are right but I still am entitled to my unpopular opinion.

Quote:

Also, sins are for "retarded people without honor?" Okay? Really now, sankt. Probably your worst post ever. I am disappointed.

I'm sorry I disappoint you.

To OP: Be honorable, don't run daggers.

Braxton619 · Nov 25, 2009, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

I make no judgement on whether "dagger spam" is strong or not. What I'm saying is that dagger spam is lame, cheesy, dishonorable, boring and doesn't offer you a way to progress your level of playmanship.

It's your opinion. I love running daggers and I been playing for 30 months. I would keep this lame conversation to rest. BTW I play as A/W.

bj91x · Nov 25, 2009, 04:03 AM // 04:03

If this build is working pretty well, what kind of feedback are you looking for? I don't see any reason you'd need feedback from others considering this is working well for you. I personally don't seek feedback of any kind on the way I play. I just don't agree with the way a lot of people play. My builds suit my style of play better.

In just this thread alone, people are making comments about using henchies to heal. I've always relied on henchies for healing/protecting. The only other defensive support skill I take is Enfeebling Blood since majority of damage in HM comes from physical attackers. I sometimes take a MM or daze or other skills if the area I'm going into has some other danger, but for the most part, Enfeebling Blood is all I really need for most hard mode areas (though I'm a returning player and very rusty right now... so I'm taking a MM on nearly any HM mission atm... I used to be able to h/h Eternal Grove on HM with my eyes closed and now... I can't h/h it using a Paragon with those defensive PVE skills Q_Q).

I also don't get all this raze about taking necros to heal and loading them up with Protection skills. Again, the hench healers are all I need for healing in majority of HM areas and I'd rather use my necros to specialize in their role rather than take half baked DPS and some support skills. That is not to say that I won't take additional support skills if the situation calls for it. Plus, I do have some fun builds with Restoration (Razah) and Smiter (Tahlkora) that deal damage and give additional defense/healing at the same time. But this is more because these are fun and interesting builds, not so much because I need the additional defensive support.

Another reason I don't take defensive support skills is because I constantly cycle through different heroes. I get bored using the same build so I rotate between my heroes and builds to add more variety. As such, creating a DPS/support hybrid build on all my heroes is kind of a pain. :P I just slap on Enfeebling Blood on one of my heroes and go on my merry way.

While I don't have any real feedback, I do like your build. It seems fun and interesting. I never thought to try Judge's Intervention with minions. I always saw this as an additional skill that can keep my party from deaths while adding some damage rather than a more offensive role when used with minions. I'm gonna try my Smiter build with minions now.

Betrayer of Wind · Nov 25, 2009, 04:16 AM // 04:16

I'd replace IATS for brawling headbutt,and jagged/fox for GPS+falling spider.that way you have infinite energy for scans andconstant KD's to shutdown whatever you need to.You also get more D-blossoms in that way.

Improvavel · Nov 25, 2009, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Since you are playing a melee ranger can I suggest R/W? Not saying is superior or inferior, just different.

Both the Hammer (earth shaker, knocks) or the Axe (few aoe attacks, easy dw and shield) paths should be viable - additionally you could have a pet (and in the case of an axe build the elite could be enraged lunge) to abuse SoH and GDW if you can add it to your build (Scavenger Strike in that situation should help with energy).

That smiter could be also replaced by a RoJ Necro (which could use a small amount of curses for enfeebling blood) with SoH or even an orders necro if besides you some of the heroes are physical damage dealers.

I don't like jagged bones - it is generally irrelevant. What to do with the slot is harder as most necro elites are meh. AotL is a decent skill I guess.

The Drunkard · Nov 25, 2009, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

Not my business, but he asked for feedback and I was happy to oblige. If you ask for criticism you can't complain when it arrives. He states that he prefer to play ranger over a sin but still fills most of his bar with sin skills. Do I really need to argue this point further?

Yes, you do.

Rangers have a stronger armor rating against eles than sins, they also have a almost maintainable IAS+75% block rate. With zealous daggers they have little energy problems. The extra dmg from on the runes is minimal sins daggers hit for so little.

Do not say a build sucks because it is "dishonorable" or it "just does", you aren't helping at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

You have to separate the 2. There is no direct link between the power of a bar and the possibilites to improve your gameplay. I'm merely pointing out that if he's aiming for efficiency, and assuming SY is a stronger choice as he says himself, well then SY simply is the better choice.

SY pushes defense while the OPs build pushes offense. I've run a orders team with a varient of the dagger sin in HM and I blow through most of the low-end pve stuff. I'm not sure one is superior than the other depending rather it depends the team's build, and in the OP's case this build is weak with out a heavy-hitting dps class.

OT: I tested the build a bit and IATS really doesn't fit in the build, nor does MS (skills recharge quickly). Change for brawling headbutt and Shattering assault. The only other bar I would change is the rit-sub out DS and A-rage for PwK and MBas for a bit more healing.